This game URGENTLY needs a message log for battles to figure out why it resolved this way. It also needs battle replays, so people can rewatch a battle and get some insight. Conquest of Elysium 5 and Dominions 6 have this feature. CoE5 battles are 2-dimensional while KH battles are 1-dimensional, but message log makes CoE5 easier to understand.
This game reminds me of:
Age of Wonders (map on hexes, heroes are just special units and those can move independently)
Warlords (heroes are just special units and those can move independently. Automatic battles. Only heroes can use items. Delay after capturing a city but not when you siege it. )
Conquest of Elysium 5 (minimal town building, automatic battles)
Wesnoth, because of how swingy the battles are (I started as High Elves, took Sable and my starting army against 3 rats strength 1 each, and got completely wiped out. Practically Game Over.)
Warcraft 3 (unit limit based on farms, very short vision ranges relative to unit speeds, and the fact that best recon units are the cheapest ones from Orcs and Elves and not those that technically get a scouting bonus (wolves, bats, eagles etc).
I don't know why it's being marketed as similar to Heroes of Might and Magic. Because that's the only fantasy TBS game people know? The HoMM game this resembles the most is HoMM4 (units can move independently). Units moving on their own means this will be a micromanagement hell on bigger maps, so it should stay small. Oh, I guess the fog of war not regrowing is like early HoMM games.
I played a couple of games and won most of them, but I don't understand why battles turn out the way they do. Was it some ability interaction? Or luck? The result is that I feel anxious rather than excited to experiment.
I like the clean and readable visuals, big choice of units, non-linear unit research.
There are some excellent points here, so first off, thank you for your input!
Your synopsis of what games are similar to ours is very accurate. Our original thinking was, take the core idea with Warlords, and then add as many features and depth as possible while also being able to deliver it in a super streamlined package. To be honest, I just really wanted to play a game of Warlords with more stuff)
As far as combat, The ideal situation would be to lower anxiety, and raise the player's knowledge of what is happening on screen. I agree, when a player just kind of watches something unfold, without knowing exactly what is happening, it creates an unpleasant tension, and worse, resentment that the relevant information was not delivered in a more plain way before the battle even started.
At its core, the combat system is actually a pretty simple, and the calculations for who wins what combat is also fairly simple, but currently we have not delivered the player that information.
The REPLAY idea is interesting, and may be an excellent way to deliver this information.
As a new player, I would learn a lot from this. The game starts off simple, and the replays could convey simple information. As battles gain troops with more abilities, those abilities can be explained in more detail, and the player can reply to watch more closely how these things play out.
Honestly, I totally forgot other games do this and its a solid idea and I appreciate you bringing it up.
Once you know what is happening in the combat, the anxiety of not knowing what is going on is replaced with a much more pleasant anticipation of seeing how things turn out. But I agree currently we are not there yet.
A game that I feel is similar to this is Super Auto Pets. Before I played the game, the combat looked insane to me and impossible to understand. After a while they started to make sense, but we have got to do a better job getting players to that point in our game.
There is actually some room at the top and bottom of the combat popup. I can try to do a sample battle with information that pops up during the combat to describe what is happening.
I hope you check back and see how we apply your feedback, and thanks a lot for sharing!
I did some thinking about a potential replay function. Here is a very primitive mockup of a button that toggles open a menu.
The lower controls could let you do stuff like replay, choose the speed of combat, or even pause and move forward or back a step? The controls could be more or less granular.
I didnt put a pause button in this mockup, but in order to read what is happening in the top part, a pause button may be required.
The top section tells you what is going on in greater depth, and if any keywords show up there, you could click on those to get further information as well.
I guess after the 100th combat you would probably toggle the information and controls off, but it would be very informative in the meantime)
The main thing, besides the toggle button, controls and description area, would be the fact that you would have to click a button to confirm when a combat is done. This would be required, because when I am playing and a combat goes by that I was like "what the heck jus happened?!" I would want the option to hit replay at the end of combat to get a closer look.
Would that button be so bad after every combat? Probably not, but it would slow down things a bit. Maybe thats a good thing.
Another way to get more information of what is happening during combat may be to announce the damage done by an attack or ability.
The information goes by very quickly on Super Auto Pets, but they do announce the damage in big red numbers. If 3 Mages cast a fireball in KH, it would maybe be nice to see that damage number.
... and, I never noticed it before, but SAPs has a few replay control at the top of their combat screen. I might prefer the buttons under the combat tho, closer to where the mouse or hand is usually resting.
I love the design and concept behind the game! A quick, but epic 4x game inspired by warlords and civilization is amazing Is! Is there a discord server for me to join?
Thanks for your comments! Our Discord is set up, and we will launch the player Discord once we get a little more work done on the alpha. We are getting some great feedback from players and I am looking forward to talking to you there.
Eventually, online multiplayer will be 1v1, since multiple players would extend time between turns by quite a lot. We will be focusing on the 1v1 experience for pass-and-play as well.
I saw the game on nookrium. Thoughts after playing like 7 times with humans. It seems that low tier unit spam is pretty powerful in combat and in early game is the only option you can afford and in mid to late game you have a lot of population space to spare so that tends to be my "choice". Mid tier and higher tiers units i've found they die to easily to lower units spam from the ai so the only profitable answer to that was to build most of my armies with bunch of peasants a wagon and cavalry or cleric since wizards and crossbow were so much more expensive and always had significant loses. idk if that was the intended way to play or not specially since the ai is not develop yet and can't counter any strategies. My balance recommendation would be to make more relevant higher tier unit which seems to be the more fun by making the 1 cost units cost 2 and lowering the price of the other a little bit because for example with peasants and fighters i am paying 3 times more for something that's barely 2 times better so with 2 armies of full peasants i would crush any army that the ai sent that was 3 to 4 times more expensive
Came to try out this game after seeing it on The Geek Cupboard! It's pretty fun and the functionality is really good for a demo. I think it's a very generous way to show off the game. I'm looking forward to the full version!
I do hope the full version will have a way to exit the game more easily after you've lost though. Every time an enemy made a move, it would close the menu, so it took ages to get out of the session so I could start again.
Hello! The game is unique and gives a very pleasant nostalgia! My only question is when will the full version be available, since it says the game is still a ''demo''
We’re currently finalizing our roadmap for the full version, which we’re planning to share around mid-June. You can also expect more updates for the demo!
We did a lot of work on our internal branch lately, we are looking at releasing a new update in the upcoming weeks and we are working on a pipeline to get updates out faster on itch.
Just some more comments on the AI having played some more games. The AI doesn't tend to buy more expensive or higher defence units even when they clearly have a lot of resources. So- I have played games when the AI have thrown waves of relatively cheap and weaker units which I have countered by using Ogres (one of my favourites- only 10 to buy and really tough). If you stack a load of ogres with a hero and some magic upgrades on a castle you are basically invincible. The AI also doesn't seem to buy any additional heroes and can be very rash in the early game with their heroes throwing them into risky battles and losing them and then not replacing them. I have also seen very strong AI players leave their home castle with little or no troops on them so that in one game when I was on the ropes and the AI had 4-5 castles I was able to sneak a force round the back and into their home castle and game over which felt a little like a cheat. Perhaps if you lose your home castle but you have another on the map your "capital" should be transferred to one of the others (or make it an option)?
Loved it! A bit devastating sometimes to lose early game encounters, but it was really interesting to discover the map in each new game, great variety!
Would be quite fun and potentially hilarious to play with friends ^_^
The dream is to one day have the game multiplayer with cross-play on all devices! This would be fun to play with friends online, so we are focusing on having the turn lengths short and manageable. Keep playing and stay in touch with us!
It is rare that I am moved to make a comment but with this I must. This game is wonderful. I am more a traditional wargamer (WW2, etc) than a fantasy one but this is a lovely game- brilliant graphics and so playable. Please continue to develop this as I am looking forward to seeing where this is going. As for suggestions I know you can set up teams (nice touch) but perhaps a simply diplomacy model to make alliances, swop territory and declare war in game? Anyway- carry on the good work!
We are honoured to have earned your comment! Having a feature like diplomacy is a great idea and we will discuss that option. Stay in touch and look forward to updates soon!
Having played a few games the AI is pretty good- I haven't seen it use boats yet to gather up the treasures in the sea and some maps have islands with castles on them so it would be interesting to see how the AI handles naval invasions of enemy island continents. I guess you could use flying units to do it.
Yes, currently the AI doesn't go in the water but we are looking forward to that. Once that is implemented, the larger maps will begin to have more islands on them. There is actually quite a bit of loot in the water so sailing and flying end up being really important.
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This game URGENTLY needs a message log for battles to figure out why it resolved this way. It also needs battle replays, so people can rewatch a battle and get some insight. Conquest of Elysium 5 and Dominions 6 have this feature. CoE5 battles are 2-dimensional while KH battles are 1-dimensional, but message log makes CoE5 easier to understand.
This game reminds me of:
Age of Wonders (map on hexes, heroes are just special units and those can move independently)
Warlords (heroes are just special units and those can move independently. Automatic battles. Only heroes can use items. Delay after capturing a city but not when you siege it. )
Conquest of Elysium 5 (minimal town building, automatic battles)
Wesnoth, because of how swingy the battles are (I started as High Elves, took Sable and my starting army against 3 rats strength 1 each, and got completely wiped out. Practically Game Over.)
Warcraft 3 (unit limit based on farms, very short vision ranges relative to unit speeds, and the fact that best recon units are the cheapest ones from Orcs and Elves and not those that technically get a scouting bonus (wolves, bats, eagles etc).
I don't know why it's being marketed as similar to Heroes of Might and Magic. Because that's the only fantasy TBS game people know? The HoMM game this resembles the most is HoMM4 (units can move independently). Units moving on their own means this will be a micromanagement hell on bigger maps, so it should stay small. Oh, I guess the fog of war not regrowing is like early HoMM games.
I played a couple of games and won most of them, but I don't understand why battles turn out the way they do. Was it some ability interaction? Or luck? The result is that I feel anxious rather than excited to experiment.
I like the clean and readable visuals, big choice of units, non-linear unit research.
There are some excellent points here, so first off, thank you for your input!
Your synopsis of what games are similar to ours is very accurate. Our original thinking was, take the core idea with Warlords, and then add as many features and depth as possible while also being able to deliver it in a super streamlined package. To be honest, I just really wanted to play a game of Warlords with more stuff)
As far as combat, The ideal situation would be to lower anxiety, and raise the player's knowledge of what is happening on screen. I agree, when a player just kind of watches something unfold, without knowing exactly what is happening, it creates an unpleasant tension, and worse, resentment that the relevant information was not delivered in a more plain way before the battle even started.
At its core, the combat system is actually a pretty simple, and the calculations for who wins what combat is also fairly simple, but currently we have not delivered the player that information.
The REPLAY idea is interesting, and may be an excellent way to deliver this information.
As a new player, I would learn a lot from this. The game starts off simple, and the replays could convey simple information. As battles gain troops with more abilities, those abilities can be explained in more detail, and the player can reply to watch more closely how these things play out.
Honestly, I totally forgot other games do this and its a solid idea and I appreciate you bringing it up.
Once you know what is happening in the combat, the anxiety of not knowing what is going on is replaced with a much more pleasant anticipation of seeing how things turn out. But I agree currently we are not there yet.
A game that I feel is similar to this is Super Auto Pets. Before I played the game, the combat looked insane to me and impossible to understand. After a while they started to make sense, but we have got to do a better job getting players to that point in our game.
There is actually some room at the top and bottom of the combat popup. I can try to do a sample battle with information that pops up during the combat to describe what is happening.
I hope you check back and see how we apply your feedback, and thanks a lot for sharing!
I did some thinking about a potential replay function. Here is a very primitive mockup of a button that toggles open a menu.
The lower controls could let you do stuff like replay, choose the speed of combat, or even pause and move forward or back a step? The controls could be more or less granular.
I didnt put a pause button in this mockup, but in order to read what is happening in the top part, a pause button may be required.
The top section tells you what is going on in greater depth, and if any keywords show up there, you could click on those to get further information as well.
I guess after the 100th combat you would probably toggle the information and controls off, but it would be very informative in the meantime)
The main thing, besides the toggle button, controls and description area, would be the fact that you would have to click a button to confirm when a combat is done. This would be required, because when I am playing and a combat goes by that I was like "what the heck jus happened?!" I would want the option to hit replay at the end of combat to get a closer look.
Would that button be so bad after every combat? Probably not, but it would slow down things a bit. Maybe thats a good thing.
Another way to get more information of what is happening during combat may be to announce the damage done by an attack or ability.
The information goes by very quickly on Super Auto Pets, but they do announce the damage in big red numbers. If 3 Mages cast a fireball in KH, it would maybe be nice to see that damage number.
... and, I never noticed it before, but SAPs has a few replay control at the top of their combat screen. I might prefer the buttons under the combat tho, closer to where the mouse or hand is usually resting.
I love the design and concept behind the game! A quick, but epic 4x game inspired by warlords and civilization is amazing Is! Is there a discord server for me to join?
Also can I ask about Kingdom Hex Multiplayer, such as how many players can the game support, and is it hotseat and/or online?
Thanks for your comments! Our Discord is set up, and we will launch the player Discord once we get a little more work done on the alpha. We are getting some great feedback from players and I am looking forward to talking to you there.
Eventually, online multiplayer will be 1v1, since multiple players would extend time between turns by quite a lot. We will be focusing on the 1v1 experience for pass-and-play as well.
Alright awesome! I can't wait for more kingdom hex updates!
I saw the game on nookrium. Thoughts after playing like 7 times with humans. It seems that low tier unit spam is pretty powerful in combat and in early game is the only option you can afford and in mid to late game you have a lot of population space to spare so that tends to be my "choice". Mid tier and higher tiers units i've found they die to easily to lower units spam from the ai so the only profitable answer to that was to build most of my armies with bunch of peasants a wagon and cavalry or cleric since wizards and crossbow were so much more expensive and always had significant loses. idk if that was the intended way to play or not specially since the ai is not develop yet and can't counter any strategies. My balance recommendation would be to make more relevant higher tier unit which seems to be the more fun by making the 1 cost units cost 2 and lowering the price of the other a little bit because for example with peasants and fighters i am paying 3 times more for something that's barely 2 times better so with 2 armies of full peasants i would crush any army that the ai sent that was 3 to 4 times more expensive
Came to try out this game after seeing it on The Geek Cupboard! It's pretty fun and the functionality is really good for a demo. I think it's a very generous way to show off the game. I'm looking forward to the full version!
I do hope the full version will have a way to exit the game more easily after you've lost though. Every time an enemy made a move, it would close the menu, so it took ages to get out of the session so I could start again.
Hooray for The Geek Cupboard! Penge brought me here, too.
*waves* Hheellooo!
*wave* thank you very much for the video!
Did you get crushed by Orc hordes or were you more successful than we were?
It took me over an hour to finally win a game! There's a pretty steep learning curve, I fear haha
Thank you for playing Penge! Hexagons are the best'agons indeed!
Thank you for trying out the game and reporting this! I will fix it and include it in the next update of the demo (around mid-June).
will you make a campaign for kingdomhex
Yes, there will be a campaign where you unlock new heroes for all the armies!
Found a Kickstarter for this but don't see it mentioned here. Are they one and the same? https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/535116321/kingdom-hex
Game looks like a lot of fun. Saw this from Nookrium and Geek Cupboard also covered this.
Hey, get Nookrium's name right in the newsfeed.
I'm here because of him.
Thanks so much!
We’re currently finalizing our roadmap for the full version, which we’re planning to share around mid-June. You can also expect more updates for the demo!
I would like to see a "spectate" or "demo" mode where I can simply watch AI opponents compete (and livestream such games).
This looks amazing! Would a Linux build be possible?
The game runs on Linux with Proton (We tested it with the Steamdeck), we have native Linux and Mac builds planned for later.
Nice!!
Do we have a release date or any further updates?
We did a lot of work on our internal branch lately, we are looking at releasing a new update in the upcoming weeks and we are working on a pipeline to get updates out faster on itch.
👍
Quick update, the new version will be released when we share our roadmap around mid-June.
Any updates?
A new army and a couple of bug fixes are coming out next week!
The update is out!
Wonderful! :)
Looking really good- love the new army. Is there a change log anywhere?
Nice to have a new style HOMMIII. Looks good. Clearly a lot of work to do yet so I'll check back later.
Just some more comments on the AI having played some more games. The AI doesn't tend to buy more expensive or higher defence units even when they clearly have a lot of resources. So- I have played games when the AI have thrown waves of relatively cheap and weaker units which I have countered by using Ogres (one of my favourites- only 10 to buy and really tough). If you stack a load of ogres with a hero and some magic upgrades on a castle you are basically invincible. The AI also doesn't seem to buy any additional heroes and can be very rash in the early game with their heroes throwing them into risky battles and losing them and then not replacing them. I have also seen very strong AI players leave their home castle with little or no troops on them so that in one game when I was on the ropes and the AI had 4-5 castles I was able to sneak a force round the back and into their home castle and game over which felt a little like a cheat. Perhaps if you lose your home castle but you have another on the map your "capital" should be transferred to one of the others (or make it an option)?
Loved it! A bit devastating sometimes to lose early game encounters, but it was really interesting to discover the map in each new game, great variety!
Would be quite fun and potentially hilarious to play with friends ^_^
The dream is to one day have the game multiplayer with cross-play on all devices! This would be fun to play with friends online, so we are focusing on having the turn lengths short and manageable. Keep playing and stay in touch with us!
It is rare that I am moved to make a comment but with this I must. This game is wonderful. I am more a traditional wargamer (WW2, etc) than a fantasy one but this is a lovely game- brilliant graphics and so playable. Please continue to develop this as I am looking forward to seeing where this is going. As for suggestions I know you can set up teams (nice touch) but perhaps a simply diplomacy model to make alliances, swop territory and declare war in game? Anyway- carry on the good work!
We are honoured to have earned your comment! Having a feature like diplomacy is a great idea and we will discuss that option. Stay in touch and look forward to updates soon!
Having played a few games the AI is pretty good- I haven't seen it use boats yet to gather up the treasures in the sea and some maps have islands with castles on them so it would be interesting to see how the AI handles naval invasions of enemy island continents. I guess you could use flying units to do it.
Yes, currently the AI doesn't go in the water but we are looking forward to that. Once that is implemented, the larger maps will begin to have more islands on them. There is actually quite a bit of loot in the water so sailing and flying end up being really important.